This interview with Angie Jones is part of the Hexawise “Testing Smarter with…” software testing interview series. Our goal with these interviews is to highlight insights and experiences as told by many of the software testing field’s leading thinkers.
Angie Jones is a Senior Software Engineer in Test at Twitter who has developed automation strategies and frameworks for countless software products. Angie shares her wealth of knowledge by speaking and teaching at software conferences all over the world and leading tech workshops for young girls through Black Girls Code.
Hexawise: Wow! You’re everywhere. Conference presentations around the globe at a break-neck pace. How’d that happen, exactly?
Angie: Ha ha. I’ve been doing test automation for quite some time. In early 2016, I attended a testing conference and didn’t learn much of anything new. It wasn’t a knock on the conference, but it was a wake up call for me.
I also interviewed people for automation roles quite often and found it was extremely hard to find people that were on the same level as my team. I realized that I have something to contribute and should be working to advance the industry in any small way that I can.
Diversity is also something that’s extremely important to me, so I thought being a black female on the stages of white male dominated conferences could also be my way of shaking up the game a little bit.
Actually, seeing a black woman announced as a speaker at a tech conference on Twitter was something that stopped me in my tracks. It wasn’t something I’d seen before. The conference was Write/Speak/Code, an event that empowers women to become thought leaders by writing blogs, speaking at conferences, and contributing to open source software! It was exactly what I needed. I attended and it absolutely changed my life. In less than 6 months after that conference, I’d become an international speaker and was being invited to keynote across the world. It all happened so fast...it was crazy!
Angie: You know, I set out to inspire young girls, but every time I work with them I’m the one who leaves totally inspired and renewed. The girls are so smart and innovative! I give them a little push and they end up creating things that totally blow me away. The idea is to plant the seed. I wasn’t exposed to technology much as a young girl and had no idea that computer programming was even a career option. I almost missed my calling because of that. I don’t want our industry to miss out the next Tech Rock Star because she didn’t know about us.
The greatest businesses are ones that observe how their customers are misusing their products/services and adapt accordingly to make it easier for them to do what it is that they want to do, and still gain the benefit of the product/service.
Hexawise: Recently you moved from the Raleigh-Durham area (home to Hexawise, among other technology companies) to San Francisco and took a new role at Twitter. How did that come about? What is your new job?
Angie: Yes, I’m so excited about this new opportunity at Twitter! I told myself that my next role was going to be something fun and cutting edge. Twitter is just that! I love the platform, I love the innovative culture, and I love the possibilities for growth. I’m working on critical automation tasks and helping to drive automation efforts related to revenue...so ads and live video.
Hexawise: Have you gained a new insight into some aspect of software testing from your work at Twitter that you can share? You haven't been at Twitter long but sometimes in a new environment people are especially alert and gain insights that others may not notice.
Angie: When I have the privilege of choosing the work I'll be doing, I lean towards companies who understand the need for both a Tester and an Automation Engineer. Twitter gets that, which played a big role in my decision to accept this position. I, along with a few other industry leaders, have been preaching for a while now that we don't necessarily need all testers writing automation, but with the complexity of today's applications, testers do need to be technical in order to do a thorough job.
At Twitter, I've now seen just how true that is. I'm working with top notch testers who aren't programmers but they understand the intricate plumbing of our systems and are capable of digging into the guts of the application to ensure all pieces are working as they should. This requires quite a bit of technical acumen yet very little coding. I'll further explore this in my keynotes this Fall at Targeting Quality (Canada), and Agile Testing Days (Germany).
Hexawise: Your article BDD Without the Three Amigos: Maybe Talking To Yourself Isn't So Bad is really thought provoking. In it, you acknowledge that Behavior-Driven Development (BDD) “done right” includes the 3 amigos, but you go on to explore what happens in situations when BA’s and Developers aren’t wiling to “play ball”. You suggest that you have seen testers gain significant value on their own by using BDD. Testers, for example, can create Gherkin feature files with clear “Given / When / Then” instructions that enable rapid creation of executable test scripts.
Angie: Yeah, we often make these hard fast rules and try to force everyone to follow them. Whenever someone “misuses” a practice, all hell breaks loose on the internet. I’ve consulted with a lot of teams and came to realize that these teams are not naive. They realize that they are using the approach differently than it was intended to be used. However, they’ve made it work for them. The greatest businesses are ones that observe how their customers are misusing their products/services and adapt accordingly to make it easier for them to do what it is that they want to do, and still gain the benefit of the product/service. To that point, Matt Wynne, co-founder of Cucumber BDD, actually read this piece and realized that there was more he could do in the industry to push for collaboration from the other amigos.
In a fast-paced software delivery model, automation is definitely needed, but many companies make the mistake of thinking it’s a replacement for testing... Automation should be used as a tool... a technique to enhance testing efforts.
Hexawise: What testing practice(s) do you most wish the software testing community would embrace?
Angie: That’s an easy one...Automation. But there’s definitely some education needed around this, which is why I write and speak on topics in this space. In a fast-paced software delivery model, automation is definitely needed, but many companies make the mistake of thinking it’s a replacement for testing. Anytime I’ve seen companies take this approach, the quality of their product has greatly suffered. Automation should be used as a tool... a technique to enhance testing efforts.
Hexawise: In your presentation at the 2016 SeleniumConf UK conference, you explore "How to Get Automation Included in Your Definition of Done." In that talk you discuss the idea that automation is useful but also that not all tests should be automated. How should a test team go about determining what software tests should be automated?
Angie: Ha ha. That’s a talk in and of itself. Actually, I’m going to give that talk at STPCon in the Fall of 2017. I get asked this question all the time, and it’s such a tricky thing to nail down. That’s because it’s highly contextual to the needs of the business. To do this topic any justice, I plan to explore several case studies in the STPCon talk and demonstrate how context plays such an essential part in answering this question correctly.
Hexawise: What trends do you foresee impacting the software testing community in the next 5 to 10 years?
Angie: With the explosion of the Internet of Things (IoT) and artificial intelligence, the systems that we test are going to become a lot more complex. This will require an evolution of testing. Our roles will become even more technical, and yet also require a healthy balance of humanity. The scenarios realized by these smart systems will require thorough testing and solid judgment. Software testing will look a lot different in 10 years, but will be extremely exciting!
Hexawise: Do you see organizations integrating software testers into the software development process (as compared to those instances where the first time software testers are involved is when software is delivered to be tested)? Do you believe more integration of software testers throughout the software development and maintenance process would be useful as software testing evolves?
Angie: I’ve already seen a huge improvement in integrating software testers into the development process with the embracing of agile practices. Quality is no longer solely owned by testers. Developers are testing their features before check-in, and testers are present throughout the entire process, essentially offering insight as early as the requirements phase. This has been essential as teams are adopting continuous integration and deployment processes. Time is of the essence, and the earlier we can avoid/find/correct mistakes, the better!
Hexawise: For those who are not used to involving testers early in the software development process, how would you describe the benefits to the business of involving software testers early in the process?
Angie: By involving testers early in the software development process, the team is able to identify and correct assumptions. This essentially eliminates potential bugs before production even begins. Testers bring in a breadth of knowledge about the application as a whole and how the individual components work together. Testers also serve as a customer advocate, ensuring that their goals are being considered. So, while the team is discussing a potential feature, the tester is advocating for the customer and also calling out how this can affect existing features in the system.
I sat in a design meeting recently and watched the tester poke holes in the proposed design and call out omissions that would cost us millions of dollars. The developers left that meeting with a list of requirements and considerations that they had missed. That's beyond valuable.
Hexawise: How do you stay current on improvements in software testing practices?
Angie: I read a ton. I’m subscribed to several blogs, and I use Twitter to find new ones all the time. People are always creating new tools or approaches to solve interesting problems and I try to absorb as much of it as I can.
I don’t limit myself to testing blogs. I also read development blogs and tech news sites to stay up to date with trends in the software industry as a whole. This helps me think past my current role and prepare myself for the future as well.
I’ve already seen a huge improvement in integrating software testers into the development process with the embracing of agile practices. Quality is no longer owned by testers. Developers are testing their features before check-in, and testers are present throughout the entire process, essentially offering insight as early as the requirements phases.
Hexawise: You have presented at and attended many technology conferences. What advice do you have for people attending software conferences so that they can get more out of the experience?
Angie: It’s so funny how people tend to flock towards topics they are familiar with. They end up sitting there nodding in agreement with everything the speaker says, sharing their own experiences during Q&A, and leaving thinking that was such a great talk. However, did they learn anything new?
I try to attend talks that will address an unsolved problem that I have, or is in an area that I know very little about. These are the talks where I gain the most insight and can bring something of value back to my job.
Also, be sure to network! You won’t remember everything that people said during their talks, but leaving with a catalog of names and contact information of not just the speakers, but attendees as well, is gold! I often hit problems and I recall meeting someone a year ago at a conference who talked about this very problem during the cocktail hour. Because I networked with them, I feel comfortable reaching out and asking for help.
Hexawise: What blogs would you recommend should be included in a software tester's RSS feed reader?
Angie: Fortunately, Ministry of Testing has an aggregated feed that I use all the time. It consists of more than 500 testing blogs! It’s my morning newspaper.
Angie Jones is a Senior Software Engineer in Test at Twitter who has developed automation strategies and frameworks for countless software products. As a Master Inventor, she is known for her innovative and out-of-the-box thinking style which has resulted in more than 20 patented inventions in the US and China.
Angie shares her wealth of knowledge by speaking and teaching at software conferences all over the world and leading tech workshops for young girls through Black Girls Code.
Blog: Angie Jones
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